So firstly we need to ask the question: What is hearsay? One atheist website I looked at defined hearsay as "information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate". Often when people use the word hearsay, they are referring to information that comes from a third-hand source. It's important to note that these are common usages of the term, because there is also a legal definition that is considerably different in meaning.
Hearsay in the Legal Setting
In a day and age of fictional legal dramas, everyone is familiar with the idea that hearsay is inadmissible as evidence in a court of law. In U.S. law, hearsay refers to a statement made out of court that is then used in court to assert the truth of a matter. Under the Federal Rules of Evidence, only statements made in a trial, under oath, by someone who can be cross-examined, can be used as evidence.In a simple example on the Wikipedia page for hearsay in US Law, if a witness makes a statement such as "Sally told me Tom was in town", this would be inadmissible evidence that Tom was in town, because it relies on a statement made by Sally outside the courtroom. To satisfy the requirements for evidence, Sally would need to make this statement herself in court. The hearsay rules are similar across most legal systems around the world.
However the common misconception that hearsay is never permitted in court is factually incorrect. Under U.S. law there are nearly 30 exceptions to the hearsay rule, which mean that out-of-court evidence may be used if it falls into a particular category, such as business records, spontaneous or excited statements, recorded past recollections, or my personal favourite - statements in authentic ancient documents (more than 20 years old).
So it's not enough to say that hearsay is unreliable evidence - such a blanket statement doesn't accord with the reality of the legal courts, where precision in the use of evidence is sometimes literally a matter of life and death. The truth is that certain kinds of hearsay evidence are used to prove the innocence or guilt of a defendant on a regular basis.
This is a great system for determining truth in contemporary legal matters, where we can examine witnesses directly in a court setting and compare their claims to the evidence provided by the prosecution and defense attorneys. Here only the strictest rules for evidence apply.\
Hearsay in Historical Inquiry
But is such a high standard of proof logical or even workable when it comes to determining the truth of past events in which all the witnesses are no longer alive? Under such circumstances, documentary evidence is all we have. While this would be considered hearsay in a court of law, historians have developed more appropriate methods for establishing historical truth.By examining primary and secondary source documents, and cross-checking these with external sources such as archaeological evidence, historians formulate hypotheses about what happened in the past and determine the probability of an event having occurred.
Using this process, professional historians have come almost unanimously to the conclusion that Jesus was a real person who actually existed, on the basis of the New Testament documents, along with some brief external evidence from the historians Tacitus and Josephus. As fiercely critical atheist scholar Bart Ehrman puts it:
“He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees.”
Beyond this, historians use criterion of authenticity to sift through statements in the New Testament writings to determine their historicity. Rather than deciding on the reliability of the books as a whole, individual sentences are compared to the criterion to determine their historical credibility one-by-one.
As for ancient historians, the vast majority of what they have recorded for us must be considered hearsay by the consistent critic. Given the limits of technology in early times, what alternative did historians have other than to record their own testimony concerning the statements they had heard from eyewitnesses?
In the words of Polybius, one of the founders of Roman historiography:
"For since many events occur at the same time in different place, and one man cannot be in several places at one time, nor is it possible for a single man to have seen with his own eyes every place in the world and all the peculiar features of different places, the only thing left for a historian is to inquire from as many people as possible, to believe those worthy of belief and to be an adequate critic of the reports that reach him." (The Histories 12.4C.4-5)
Neither modern scholars or ancient historians reject indirect evidence as hearsay, instead they probe the sources they have to determine their reliability.
Hearsay Can Communicate Truth
The reliance of historical investigations on documents and recorded testimony to determine the truth of history proves an important point - hearsay can communicate truth. This becomes obvious as soon as we imagine a simple scenario.I was born too late to meet any of my great-grandparents. The only information I have about them comes from my parents, who knew them and could provide eyewitness testimony about them. But as soon as I tell my friends about my great-grandparents, repeating the things my parents told me, that information becomes hearsay.
Provided the testimony of my parents is true, the hearsay I pass on is also true. The fact that a statement is hearsay doesn't make it false, it just means that the truth factor needs to be investigated in order to be established as fact - which is exactly what historians do.
In the meantime, should my friends be automatically skeptical about the details I give them about my great-grandparents? Should they reject my claims until I provide further evidence? If we presume that all hearsay is untrustworthy, then we should reject any kind of indirect news reporting out of hand - yet nearly everybody believes that there is a basis of truth to current events news stories that they hear from a reporter who was not an eyewitness to the actual events.
This kind of hyper-skepticism is unworkable and impractical. By all means critically examine the New Testament texts to see if they tell the truth - but don't reject them because they contain hearsay. This is a historical investigation, not a criminal trial.
Are The Gospels Even Hearsay?
The last consideration we need to make is whether or not the gospels, along with Acts and the letters of Paul, are even products of hearsay in the first place.Using the common definitions in regards to hearsay, we want to determine how many mouths each gospel passed through to determine whether it is second or third-hand. We also want to decide whether or not the information within the gospels can be adequately substantiated.
In the case of John and Matthew, much of what occurs in their gospels is their own eyewitness testimony. Both men were members of the inner circle of Jesus and were positioned to hear and record statements directly from other eyewitness as well.
In addition to multiple secondary sources that link Mark's gospel to the eyewitness testimony of the apostle Peter, notable scholar Richard Bauckham points out internal evidences within Mark that support this claim. An inclusio device bookends Peter's involvement as a disciple and witness of Jesus, indicating that he is the original source of the material. There is also a literal framing device throughout Mark that records events initially from a plural perspective ("we went there", "we did this") that moves to a singular perspective as the action gets underway. This is as clear an indication of eyewitness testimony as we can get from a writing system that didn't have a mechanism like speech marks for indicating quotations. At worst, Mark's gospel is secondary reporting of Peter's eyewitness testimony, and on par with anything recorded by Polybius.
Luke seems more vulnerable to the claim that his gospel is hearsay. While the evidence shows he was closely connected with Paul, there aren't too many links to the original disciples who were eyewitnesses of the life of Jesus. Nevertheless, the material he shares fits with the things established in the other gospels, and in fact Luke often uses portions of Matthew and Mark directly and unabridged. He explains in the prologue to his work that he has carefully interviewed eyewitnesses and is connected enough within the early church to plausibly gain access to them.
Luke benefits more than the other gospel writers from the corroborative historical evidence that has validated him as an outstanding and accurate recorder, so even though he is further from the inner circle of Jesus than the others, we can be confident that he has carefully recorded the events as they took place.
The gospels are a mixture of direct eyewitness testimony, along with secondary reports from eyewitnesses. While some of this would not be admitted as evidence in an actual court, this is no problem for the Christian, since this is not a legal matter but a historical one. The fact that there are four separate accounts of the life of Jesus, each of which contains original material not found in the others, mean that the accounts can be substantiated. This is made even more certain by the references to Jesus in Acts and the other New Testament documents.
Are the Gospels Hearsay?
ReplyDeleteAgain we have an article that is completely wrong, full of dishonesty and severely misleading, but let’s go through it and demonstrate why.
To say that you won’t find many historians say that the Gospels are hearsay is ridiculous, this is actually the common consensus is that that’s all they are and when I say this I mean that that is exactly what they think.
1 Because it is common knowledge that whoever wrote the Gospels couldn’t have been there when Jesus supposedly got crucified
2 Because it is common knowledge that whoever wrote the Gospels never lived around the area that they claimed the Gospels took place, they were written 2000 miles away from Jerusalem
3 The Gospel of Mark was written sometime around 75AD (40 hears later) and it was the first Gospel that the other Gospels copied
4 Most of the population was illiterate but they would have been written in another language anyways even if it was hypothetically real what the Gospels said, so it couldn’t have been those particular people
The only people who would say that the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses or reliable transmission, are preachers and apologists, which are out to mislead, misinform and are just preaching and nothing else.
We know that they do this because they are either misinformed themselves, or are making a living, or like Eusebius in ancient times felt that it was more important to lie to people if that’s what it took, because belief was very important to him and how he got them to believe was justified. This is very popular thinking for preachers and apologists today.
You yourself on your twitter knowingly deceive and lie to people and I point this out to you constantly. What’s funny is that it’s the same things that you keep saying over and over. So this is a great example of this.
It is understandable though if you think about it, if there are noble, loving intentions involved I suppose. If someone doesn’t want a close friend to drive drunk they might tell them they can’t find their keys, or that the cops have a spot check down the street.
It might be noble in intention in the case of lying for Christianity, but it is still lying and it is still lying for something that isn’t true and can be demonstrated to be false. Again also, the arguments for deism are not arguments for theism.
Now here is the shocker. Are you ready?
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that the Gospels are NOT hearsay, they are simply just fiction and nothing else. They were not hearsay when they were written, they were just fictional when they were written and were simply just plagiarized from the OT and some other fictional stories.
The Gospels all copy Mark and just added other fictional things. What you need to do is see all the things that the Gospels are plagiarized from. Moses for example, Elijah, Elisha, as people and then OT prophecies from Isaiah 53.
Mark itself is partially using a guy named Jesus ben Ananias as a model, but this isn’t the same Jesus of the Gospels, this is a true madman. A madman with 22 parallels to the Jesus of the Gospels. Hardly a coincidence and considering Mark was written shortly after Jesus ben Ananias had died, who was written about in detail by Josephus, unlike Jesus of the Gospels, we know he existed.
Mark even had 3 different endings, so it shows how significant the ending of Mark was to being based on truth (it wasn’t). All Mark was was a long parable, created to show a symbolic and allegorical message. The other Gospels also. Each Gospel was created to correct what they felt were mistakes by the other Gospels.
The Gospels are of course written brilliantly as fiction, with their chiastic structure, which is how fictional stories were written then. George Lucas even wrote Star Wars in this style and the last I checked Star Wars was fiction.
So no, the Gospels are not hearsay, they are fictional creations put together with elements from Paul’s genuine letters, the Old Testament, the characters in the OT and from a ranting and screaming madman that everyone was aware of because of his nutty antics and how loud he was (in 70AD).
The letters of Paul aren’t hearsay, they are the rantings of a preacher who was earning a living talking allegorically about a celestial high priest archangel, which we know that the early Jews of the early 1st century already believed in (like Gabriel, Michael and Melchezidek). That is what they believed and that’s what Paul was writing about. Belief and nothing else.
A great example of belief TODAY even that Christians believed Jesus was an archangel celestial high priest messiah before the first century, are of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The belief Michael the archangel from the book of Daniel is actually Jesus and if you look him up you’ll see that that is exactly what Michael the archangel is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_(archangel)
Paul was not writing about hearsay of Jesus as a person, because he never talks about Jesus having a life as a man, or anything about his life. He is writing about belief in an angel messenger of God.
ReplyDeleteThe book of Acts is just historical fiction and nothing else, which we know because of it’s chiastic fictional structure (inclusio) and the plagiarism of how it copies from the Gospels and how it copies from Homer, also how Acts contradicts what Paul said in his letters.
Acts is absolutely nothing that can be considered hearsay because it was just written as a fiction from the beginning and was so fictionally written that people were fully aware that it wasn’t really supposed to be taken seriously. Why would they when Jesus was just a belief in an archangel?
The Gospels themselves are filled with allegory and are one big parable and are just fictional stories, the same way Star Trek isn’t hearsay, they are just fictional stories.
So with no evidence of Jesus, Paul only talking about a celestial Jesus, the Gospels being fiction, Acts also being fiction, the acknowledgement that the early Christians only believed in a celestial Jesus, well it looks like not only are the Gospels not hearsay, but they aren’t even talking about a real person either, just a fictional one.
So this isn’t an article you’ve written defending Christianity, just an article wasting people’s time, by defending something that is actually true, but meaningless because it is based on something that was never true.
I’ll give you an example and we’ll compare it to what your argument is:
‘The latest Spiderman movie is not hearsay because they were passed on from people who were eyewitnesses to the stories of Spiderman from the 1960s.’
It’s fiction based on other fiction. That’s it.